Guys from the state side, I''m canadian and enjoy what we have for a healthcare system we got. It''s government run and most stuff is taken care by our health system. I''m seeing on the news what''s goin on and alot of smear campaigning is happening to our health care. Let me tell you something, very, very rarely, someone goes bankrupt here cause of healthcare costs. Most of our stuff is taken care of by government run and little with health insurance companies. My 2 cents is guys on the u.s. side is stop listening to the corporate fat cat scare tactics and support your president. He is a very good, sincere man. If you won''t write to your congressman about supporting this health plan, it''s goin to get worst for you. Thank you for takin the time to read it and hopin I won''t get censor here from the moderators

Socializing medicine? Having to wait 3-6 months to see a doctor? That's messed up too. The grass isn't any greener on that side of Gov't run Health Care either. Fact is, there is NO easy way to do it. It's ALL messed up. Both sides. I haven't heard a convincing arguement for which is better by either side. I can't wait months to take my disabled son to get seen by a Specialist- much less a regular MD (Who'll refer him out to one anyway). Just my 2 cents man.

3 to 6 months to see a specialist?....I don''t know where you heard that one over here...I''m sorry about your son, thafuzz...I''m talkin about stuff over about people who do have coverage in the u.s. and still get denied about healthcare cause some hmo says ""no, you can''t have it"" cause they look at you like a dollar sign...you know what''s really screwed up is why do people have to go bankrupt because have conditions they have...healthcare is a right, not a privellage..even if you are privellage , your still denied...that;s screwed up...that''s what I don''t understand

yeah the mans right, we have government funded health care here in the UK too.

yes you may have to wait for somethings under the scheme but if you dont want to wait you go privately and pay for it.

so you have both options.

you know how corrupt and hyped up with lies the usa is you should make your own minds up. just look at the other countries with gov funded health care to see examples of it working.

down side is of course your taxes are going to be higher and the nhs here is under funded in areas leading to poor performance in certain places.

even so you still get treated regardless of your financial situation

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even so you still get treated regardless of your financial situation

Great point Billy. I listen to every politician with my BS filter on nowadays. All we really deserve/Need is a system that honestly treats the people in need. For all Governments to take good care of their people in need. I truly wish it were that easy.

i wish it was that easy as well
honestly the insurnance industry is a scam,i've paid for pvt coverage for over 25yrs,and when i had a heart attack and open heart surgary,ewhat do the insurance comp do? Only linit my coverage and FAIL to pay for several of my rx drugs!

Thanks for your concern and I'd love to join you in boombox brotherhood but perhaps it best if we leave the disputes to those folks that will be directly affected by the proposed changes. Those are the people that should decide the fate and direction of their healthcare.

As for the great Canadian healthcare system, I saw the following just yesterday evening:

Look at this video here of Dr. Anne Doig, president of Canadian Medical Association.

Interview with Dr. Anne Doig, President of CANADIAN Medical Association.

We, here are spoiled by our health care. Anything less than that begs the question of why? Also, why can't I choose and decide if I want health care, that is the big question. Personally, I'm spoiled by the freedoms here that I currently enjoy. Being forced to join a system chosen for me is an erosion of that freedom. Sure, I can go see private if I want to pay double but in truth, but being forced to join one and pay extra for another isn't really a choice.

not meaning to get personal here norm but can you give a rough figure as to how much your income is?

as id be willing to bet that if youre on a low income your thoughts on the subject would be a bit different

I'm in Sales Billy so I've had income as recent as 4 years ago that was considered top 5%. Last 3 years, with tanking economy, my income has been very low, barely scrapping by type of low.

The issue for me is not health care reform -- I completely agree that costs are out of control and we need it. My dispute is in regards to how to achieve that reform. What isn't being told here is that there are a thousand different ways to deal with and cover the issue of uninsured Americans. The one thing that I don't want to compromise on is freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to decide if I want health care. I don't want the government making those decisions for me. Billy, you are in UK and gagaeyes is in Canada. You guys don't know and understand the ineptitude and incompetence of anything run by our government including the DMV (long waits, extremely poor service), our Social Security entitlement (which will be bankrupt in as few as 2 years), Medicare and Medicaid (which is or will be bankrupt without change), our Post Office (which has stated that it is in an unsustainable path, due to be bankrupt soon). And now, our most recent program, the cash for clunkers program which has been a disaster. Government consumes wealth. Private enterprise produces wealth. With that, I have exactly ZERO confidence in the American government to run any program efficiently and effectively. They have the midas touch except anything they touch turns to crap. When I first started paying towards social security, I was told that I could retire in my 50's. Then it slowly crept further and further up. It is now possible that I may never be able to retire. Either the entitlement age is going to be so high that I die first, or the system goes bankrupt.

So, please excuse me for having strong feelings but I have a serious mistrust of anything run by our government and I like my freedom. Philosophically, I trust me to take care of myself more than my government. Giving up my freedom is akin to selling my soul to the government and I won't do it without a fight. Growing up, I learned that we work hard for what we want. Therefore, I don't want or expect a handout. I'll work for what I want and need instead and if it's not enough, then I'll learn to cut corners someplace else. Regardless, I want to do it MY way, not the governments way. Anyone naive enough to think that ANYTHING from the government is FREE, such as healthcare should think again. Nothing is free. Remember: THE GOVERNMENT CONSUMES WEALTH -- IT PRODUCES NOTHING. And where does it get the wealth to consume? You got it, from you and me. So everything we get, is paid for by you and me. The only difference? -- We lose free choice. Instead of buying and using what we need, the government chooses that for us instead. Anyone doubting this should read the bill more clearly. You can choose not to request care. You DON'T get to choose NOT to pay for it because the government will force you to pay for it. The devil is in the details.

However, that is just me and unquestionably, there are strong feelings from both sides of the aisle so this is not a consensus by any means.

THINGS AREN'T ALWAYS AS SIMPLE AS IT SOUNDS. Not supporting our president's vision of health care does not mean we are anti-reform. It just means we disagree on how to accomplish it.

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I don't want or expect a handout. I'll work for what I want and need instead and if it's not enough, then I'll learn to cut corners someplace else. Regardless, I want to do it MY way, not the governments way.

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THINGS AREN'T ALWAYS AS SIMPLE AS IT SOUNDS. Not supporting our president's vision of health care does not mean we are anti-reform. It just means we disagree on how to accomplish it.

Amen Adam, Amen.

I think stormin'' normin, it''s more this way, corporations consumes wealth and corporations tell governments what to do.That''s the reality of it all, brother

Come on, gaga. That statement alone should disqualify you from chiming in on any economics related subject. If you were a student of economics, you would know the fundamental core principles of that discipline.

Corporations exist for 1 purpose -- to make money. It is that purpose and function that makes them compete for your business. The competition for your business is what will drive down prices. In order to perform their function and purpose, corporations need to hire people. Yes, that is where jobs come from. When enough companies are out there, unemployment goes down and there is competition for workers. That competition for human resources drives up wages, gets us benefits such as paid days off, sick leave AND MEDICAL BENEFITS. Take away the financial earnings incentives of capitalism and you take away jobs. Companies simply are not in the business of losing money. So a non-profitable business will shut down and take away jobs. Take away jobs and your government needs to tax more to continue operations. Private enterprise in this country is equivalent to the cash cow or golden goose. Kill the golden goose and you've got no more golden eggs. It's that simple.

There is no competition in Government which is why they don't give a damn if you are happy with the service you get or not -- you've got no choice. If you don't like it, there is no one to complain to. Governments can't be sued. Governments hire, but the wages paid comes from where??? Plucked from a magical tree, you say? BZZZ. WRONG! It comes from garnishing the wealth (wages) through taxes of the hard working people of this country. And who are the hard working people of this country working for that pays them this wealth? OK, I know this is a hard one but they work for and get paid by the companies that are busy trying to stay alive.

Capitalism is what made this country great and when our leaders get away from their socialistic inclinations, our economy will thrive again.

I don't know a nice way to say this but how about you focus on the domestic policies of your country and let the American people worry about and resolve our issues.

ok, stormin normin, you have your opinion and I have mine...but let''s agree upon something here...that everything we talked about needs improvement here from healthcare,etc...always room for changes and sometimes some people will not like what''s goin to happen but sometimes it''s for the best and sometimes for the worst...depending what side of the fence you are on...the only reason why I brought this issue up cause some of the american media is somewhat smearing the canadian healthcare system and that''s the reason why I brought this up

I'm sure you have good intentions gaga.

As I said, however, it's much more complicated than simply "support" or "not-support."

You may think you see the answer clearly, but since you don't live here, just understand that your perspective of the issue is viewed through a filter.

Not supporting the presidents plan doesn't mean we don't want health care reform. We Do. We just feel there are better ways to do it without trashing our entire system which 80% of the people are happy with, and replacing it with a different (completely fundamentally and philosophically) system that has been tried and time proven to have poor results (which is having the government run something). With the governments poor track record, why should we start believing them now, that they can do an improved job? History has shown they can't do it. Finally, this is not something that can be undone. You don't implement this, try it, and undo it, like trying on a sweater. Once it is in place, it's a new entitlement that can't ever be undone.

Right now, we just want the government to do the people's will, and the people have spoken -- loudly. It remains to be seen whether the elected politians will listen to the people but if they don't, they are gonna get the big boot. Of that, I am pretty certain.

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this is not something that can be undone. You don't implement this, try it, and undo it, like trying on a sweater. Once it is in place, it's a new entitlement that can't ever be undone.

Word! That's the most important part to keep in mind. There's no 'going back' option if it doesen't work out.

Statistics Show Canadian Healthcare Is Inferior to American System


Not quite what you make it out to be in Canada. I know many Canadians that are quite less than enamored with the health care system.

I've heard the arguments. But this is the first time I've seen a visual representation. Thanks PF.

I've also heard that taxation is very high in Canada and UK as well with many European countries implementing VAT. I SAY uncle Sam has taken enough of my hard earned money. Just please let me decide what to do with what little I have left after taxes. Maybe I'll buy a bunch of boomboxes. Maybe I'll increase my medical coverage. Maybe nothing.... But I want it to be MY choice.

hmmm...that report on healthcare done by republicans... ok, that says everything..your right, guys...it''s your decision,I just want to say my two cents worth on what''s goin on..by the way, if you vote out, Obama...tell him he is welcomed here to do politics here in Canada, will give him a canadian citizenship and I''m sure he''ll do a great job here...peace out guys

all i know is i could out of pocket $14,000 USD a year on healthcare and still be financially out less than buying insurance for my family. I am self employed and last year spent about $5200 on healthcare. I would have been far less happy had i paid over $15000 for the same treatment.

insurance is a racket, the companies know it, the government knows it and it makes a sh*tload of money. it's not going anywhere folks. watch.

fear is the best money making tool.

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Originally posted by blah blah blah:
all i know is i could out of pocket $14,000 USD a year on healthcare and still be financially out less than buying insurance for my family. I am self employed and last year spent about $5200 on healthcare. I would have been far less happy had i paid over $15000 for the same treatment.

insurance is a racket, the companies know it, the government knows it and it makes a sh*tload of money. it's not going anywhere folks. watch.

fear is the best money making tool.

The only difference is that with what is being proposed, you'd lose YOUR FREE CHOICE of whether or not to insure or not. You'd be required to purchase health care insurance and in both the house and senate bills, the IRS is going to be in charge of healthcare enforcement. In other words, you either have to subscribe to health coverage OR you will be imposed a TAX. So like it or not, you no longer can choose whether or not to buy insurance. This is government intrusiveness to the max, like we've never seen before. Be forewarned people -- be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it along with all the baggage.

See below:

IRS, the new Health Care Enforcer

I love this one response at the end of the 1st page on that blog posting link:

"I am too tired at the moment to go line by line with people who are blind to the facts, but if EVERYONE read the bill, there'd be FAR fewer supporters, that is for sure. If you want to see government run health care in action... go to a VA hospital, then tell me you want these idiots in charge of your health and life. If you still do, there's really no hope to actually discuss this issue rationally".

This country is based on capitalism but also keep in mind that the private sector is the one that caused our country to almost go into a depression.

One word GREED!

I agree that we should have that freedom to choose over healthcare.

I think there needs to be some kind of reform in this issue.

I also think that something needs to be done at these outrageous prices from Hospital stays, ER service to our Rx medications thats what causes our healthcare to be very costly. Which in turn hurts alot of employers that reguires to provide healthcare for their employees.

My mother receives Medicaid & Medicare she gets these statements which informs her of her medication cost. The prices are insane for the prescription drugs she gets.

Once again it's GREED!!!!!!!!

That clunker program will never work either.... neither will social security..... medicare and the like. We shouldn't regulate financial institutions either. I think it's time that the have's of the country quit calling the shots. They screwed this country up plenty in the last eight years. Maybe someone can make some progress in the next 15 to 20 years before they somehow turn around their sinking ship.

AAAHHH, my favorite subject: Politics, or should I say: Poly-Tricks!!! Why? Poly - many or muli-sided & Tricks - games or deceptions!!!

Check this out!!! For low income people there's been a healthcare coverage here in the US called MEDICADE, that is also "GOVERN-MENT FUNDED" by State Legislatures. One of the benefits of Medicade is that it covers 100% of all Dr visits, Prescriptions, & all other healthcare issues.

The only drawback with it is that you have to PROVE that you have no source of income, or healthcare coverage what-so-ever, and there's usually a LLLOOONNNGGG waiting list of people waiting to get it, due to this Recession and the rising Unemployment Rates!!!

Obama's got the right idea with a Government Mandated Healthcare System. If the Govern-Ment is so worried about additional spending, WHY NOT GIVE EVERYONE WHO NEEDS IT MEDICADE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL???

Just think, either way, the people who don't have any healthcare, are going to have to prove that they need it either way, and will have to go through some sort of Application Process, right? This way The US can save money by using what it's already got, and not have to worry about spending money on something else that's MORE COSTLY!!!

'NUFF SAID

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The only difference is that with what is being proposed, you'd lose YOUR FREE CHOICE of whether or not to insure or not. You'd be required to purchase health care insurance and in both the house and senate bills, the IRS is going to be in charge of healthcare enforcement. In other words, you either have to subscribe to health coverage OR you will be imposed a TAX. So like it or not, you no longer can choose whether or not to buy insurance. This is government intrusiveness to the max, like we've never seen before. Be forewarned people -- be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it along with all the baggage

the reality is the only thing that will come out of this is that everyone will be required to pay either the insurance company or the taxes. policies will not be cheaper, the costs of care will not be lower, insurance companies have simply insured we will pay one way or another in partnership with our friend the irs. i would love universal medical care that was fair, but since insurance companies are simply middlemen taking 30% of the costs for doing NOTHING...it won't happen. unfortunately insurance companies, hospitals and drug companies make $$$$ for people being sick. business is business.