Just a heads up for you guys/gals.... About a month ago I bought a box off of ebay. The seller did not specify a shipping amount in the auction. ("Contact seller for shipping info" Not unusual, it was from Canada) So I sent him an official ebay "invoice request" via the ebay auction page. (BTW ALL my communication was through official ebay channels. ***Make sure you send yourself a copy of these or you will be out of luck after 30 days*** Otherwise you will have no record of what was said when.)

Anyway I sent him an invoice request at 10:15am on the 1/9. He sent me a PayPal request 31 minutes later. I paid 11 min after that. This was a Canada sale, shipping took a couple weeks, so it was when I returned home on the 21st from a trip that I opened the box up. Long story short there were LOTS of problems with this box that were TOTALLY unrelated to shipping. So I started to contact the seller. Again... and again... and again.... no response. So today I filed a PayPal dispute (Through e-bay... by clicking on the auction itself) for either a partial (the ~mint~ box is really a "parts" box) refund or a full (send the stinker back) refund. Rather than wait for the "dispute" process to drag on (since he was ignoring me anyway) I escalated it to a "Claim" right away. IMMEDIATELY I was denied. WTF? No PayPal protection for me. Paypal said only shipment (or none shipment) of goods was covered, not anything else. He could have shipped me a box full of spare parts and it would have counted. WHAT????

Keep in mind... the entire time everything was through official ebay/paypal channels... above board.... no side-deals. Or so I thought.

I called PayPal today. Talked to a person. He was very helpful in finding out what the issue was. I had to provide ebay IDs... dates... auction number (WTF? They did not have these? I clicked from the auction through the ebay site.) And the bottom line is this...... I had asked for an invoice. The seller responded with a PayPal request. And he had checked "goods-other" NOT "ebay item". Totally out of MY control and it did not show up on MY request that this was NOT an ebay transaction.

Because of all the information I provided PayPal is wiping out the old denied claim and started a new one for me. But only because I had so much information.

Now this is not a "shipping damage" claim. It was mis-represented product. All a shifty seller has to do protect himself from a PayPal claim is send a PayPal request for the correct amount and check that it was *not* for an ebay item. And unless you fully pursue it like I did (it was a $430 transaction after all) you will be SOL if he provides a tracking number that shows that you received it. That is the extent of the "protection" that PayPal gives you for off-ebay transactions. Even if you are only "off-ebay" because the seller chose to make it that way.

Be warned.....

(I will let you know how this is resolved. It will be a few weeks. I can also let you know the details of the box and what I received, but it is not really material to my warning)

Hey Spud! That is crappy! Why the crooked Canucks? there are good ones I swear! Anyway I had one where I sold a National RX-7200 to a guy. He claimed the radio did not work, and filed a claim, I asked if he did not know Japanese radios had a different frequency, and he sent me ten furious emails saying I was a thief. Paypal sided with him and let him send it back to me and it arrived in pieces! I filed an appeal using a VIDEO showing it was damaged, and they denied my appeal, saying they could not say it was his fault!

I had to call twice to get someone who was much nicer and she filed a counterclaim and now I am getting my refund. If you are unsatisfied with a response, you need to call again as some folks are very helpful...I hope yours works out!
On another note, any manuals?

Manuals? I always have something coming in... I need to get on the scanner for you soon though don't I?

BTW I have seen evidence that some sellers are actually recording video of all their boxes functions AND of the entire packing process when they send it off. It sounds like a good idea no matter WHO you are trying to protect yourself from (bad buyers, bad shipping, claims of bad packing). I would really hate to see it HAVE to get to that point. But it really makes sense to do so I guess.


BTW I know all Canucks are not bad. Most are just drunk.... But they are the only ones who apparently bought JVC back in the early 80's.... so I am stuck with that. And with packages that smell like Molson and stale Belmonts.

This really s--ks. Hope you get ironed out.

Can't wait to see how this shakes out. Good luck man!

Auction link? Seller ID?

that bites. yikes, i got a box out there with almost the same situation...hope i'm not in for the same experience...

thanks for the warning, definitely some scummy sellers around.

still --another reason to buy from us MEMBERS

I got screwed good and by em too several years ago. I sold a 700.00 digital camera, and the buyer said he only received a box of rocks ! PP sided with him and did a chargeback from out of my personal bank account ! I had 100% positive feedback out of 170 transactions. I guess PP is their own judge and jury and you're guilty as charged.
Heres a good anti PP site :
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

This can be a real problem, electronics worth good amount of $. It can take an insane amount of time and effort to resolve fairly. When it comes to dealing with people in another country.....especially if his plan was to sell something that had problems, might as well walk away !...yes we have thieves in this World,which is why I've taken to buying local when possible and insist on a refund - in person...no threats, just "I want my money back now". Take someone big and serious looking with you!

On the other side of the coin...what keeps us buying of ebay and taking chances is that great deals do exist....I bought a rare KLH multiplex stereo adapter from the early 1960's from a ebay auction in China....4 months later it arrived - mint condition - for $47.00 ! I think the gambling alure is in most of us.

man all this sucks . . I have said this over and over, no matter what ebay do, you can't stop @rseholes being @rseholes ! ! Buyers or sellers.

And lets not forget all Ebay really cares about is taking your money - buyer or seller - period.