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does this count as a boombox ???

stbnyc - 2008-12-04 08:27





this is a strange vcr. obviously its a sharp. so they didnt only make record players that can stand up. maybe i can find speakers that could match and hook em up next to the vcr some how. then we could call this a VHS boombox

jvc.floyd - 2008-12-04 08:31

i think to be a bonafied boombox it has to have a tuner/tape deck /built in speakers/battery power option.that thing looks cool tho .

stbnyc - 2008-12-04 08:37

quote:
Originally posted by jvc floyd:
i think to be a bonafied boombox it has to have a tuner/tape deck /built in speakers/battery power option.that thing looks cool tho .


oh yea silly me Big Grin . at least its got the handle Razz

71spud - 2008-12-04 08:46

Wow this reminds me of how - back in the day when hi-fi VHS was released - I used to record audio only on my VHS because the sound quality was superior to standard cassettes. Worked amazingly great and gave you 2 hours of music on SP mode. However I learned the hard way that you needed to include some type of video signal so that the auto-tracking knew where to go... Wink

jlf - 2008-12-04 08:54

It could be a video boombox... you could go around playing old school MTV all day! Smile

jovie - 2008-12-04 08:57

Always great to see unique vintage electronics and this certainly qualifies as such!They should have made them all with portability in mind...and it would look quite at home in a boombox collection. Nod Yes

billpc55 - 2008-12-04 09:25

i did see one that looked like that just today in my new treasure trove.
if it did have speakers and slp recording you could make a eight hour tape of music for it to play. music recorded on vhs tape sounds extremely good.

71spud - 2008-12-04 09:50

A good read----

quote:
Audio Upgrade from Lo-Fi Monaural to Hi-Fi Stereo
In the original VHS format, audio was recorded as a baseband (unmodulated) in a single linear track, at the upper edge of the tape. The recorded frequency-range was dependent on the movement of the tape past the audiohead, which for the VHS SP mode, resulted in a mediocre frequency response of roughly 100 Hz to 10 kHz. The signal-to-noise ratio was an acceptable 42 dB. Both parameters degraded significantly with VHS's longer play modes, with EP frequency response peaking at 4KHz.

More expensive decks offered stereo audio recording and playback. Linear stereo, as it was called, fit two independent channels in the same space as the original mono audiotrack. While this approach preserved acceptable backward compatibility with monoaural audioheads, the splitting of the audiotrack degraded the signal's SNR to the point that audible tape-hiss was objectionable at normal listening volume. To counteract tape-hiss, decks applied Dolby B noise-reduction for recording and playback. Dolby B dynamically boosts the mid-frequency band of the audioprogram on the recorded medium, improving its signal strength relative to the tape's background noise floor, then attenuates the mid-band during playback. Dolby B is not a transparent process, and Dolby-encoded program material will exhibit an unnatural mid-range emphasis when played on non-dolby capable VCRs.

High-end consumer recorders took advantage of the linear-nature of the audiotrack, as the audiotrack could be erased and recorded without disturbing the video-portion of the recorded signal. Hence, "audio dubbing" and "video dubbing", where either the audio or video are re-recorded on tape (without disturbing the other), were supported features on prosumer editing-decks. Without dubbing capability, an audio or video edit could not be done in-place on master cassette, and requires the editing output be captured to another tape, incurring generational loss.

Studio film releases began to emerge with linear-stereo audiotracks in 1982. From that point onward nearly every home-video releases by Hollywood featured a Dolby-encoded linear-stereo audiotrack. However, linear-stereo was never popular with equipment makers or consumers.

Around 1985, JVC added HiFi audio to VHS (in response to Betamax's introduction of Beta Hi-Fi.) Both VHS HiFi and Betamax HiFi delivered flat full-range frequency-response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB S/N ratio (in consumer space, second only to the audio compact-disc), and studio-grade channel-separation (more than 70dB.) This method of VCR audio, known as audio frequency modulation (AFM), recorded each of the 2 stereo channels (L, R) on a frequency-modulated carrier, embedding the modulated audio-signal pair into the video-signal. To avoid crosstalk and interference from the primary video-carrier, VHS's implemenation of AFM relied on a form of magnetic recording called depth multiplexing. The modulated-audio carrier pair was placed under the luminance carrier (below <1.6MHz), and recorded first. Subsequently, the video-head erases and re-records the video-signal over the same tape-surface, but video-signal's higher center-frequency results in a shallower magnetization of the tape, allowing both the video and residual AFM-audio signal to coexist on tape. [PAL versions of Beta HiFi use this same technique.) During playback, VHS HiFi recovers the depth-recorded AFM-signal by subtracting the audiohead's signal [which contains the AFM-signal contaminated by a weak image of the video-signal) from the videohead's signal [which contains only the video-signal), then demodulates the left and right audio-channels from their respective frequency-carriers. The end result of the complex process was audio of outstanding fidelity, which was uniformly solid across all tape-speeds [EP or SP.) Since JVC had gone through the complexity of ensuring HiFi's backward compatibility with non-HiFi VCRs, virtually all studio home-video releases contained HiFi audiotracks [in addition to linear-stereo.)

The excellent sound quality of HiFi VHS attracted the attention of amateur and hobbyist recording artists. home recording enthusiasts occasionally recorded high-quality stereo mixdowns and master recordings from multitrack audio tape onto consumer-level HiFi VCRs. However, because the VHS HiFi recording-process is intertwined with VCR's the video-recording function, advanced editing functions such as audio-only or video-only dubbing are impossible.

The considerable complexity and additional hardware limited VHS HiFi to high-end decks for many years. While linear-stereo all but disappeared from home VHS decks, it was not until the mid-1990s that HiFi became a standard feature on VHS decks. Even then, few customers were aware of its significance.

isolator42 - 2008-12-04 10:06

quote:
Originally posted by 71spud:
Wow this reminds me of how - back in the day when hi-fi VHS was released - I used to record audio only on my VHS because the sound quality was superior to standard cassettes. Worked amazingly great and gave you 2 hours of music on SP mode. However I learned the hard way that you needed to include some type of video signal so that the auto-tracking knew where to go... Wink
Yeah, I remember when a nightclub/cinema/bar complex opened in Kingston called Options, a couple of my mates worked there. The bar's soundsystem used VHS tapes in a bank of players...
People used to say that VHS HiFi Stereo was equivalent to a good FM Stereo broadcast. Definitely better than cassette.
I did my own music for our wedding disco, recording it onto a 4 hour VHS tape. Worked a treat & sounded great Smile

jlf - 2008-12-04 10:08

Seriously? Music on a VCR tape?

Can someone please explain how this would be hooked up to work?

I found this one... Anyone know what the Timer box that makes this VCR a matched pair is for?

71spud - 2008-12-04 10:10

quote:
Originally posted by isolator42:People used to say that VHS HiFi Stereo was equivalent to a good FM Stereo broadcast. Definitely better than cassette.


Did you catch this info in my large quote above?

quote:
Both VHS HiFi and Betamax HiFi delivered flat full-range frequency-response (20 Hz to 20 kHz), excellent 70 dB S/N ratio (in consumer space, second only to the audio compact-disc), and studio-grade channel-separation (more than 70dB.)

isolator42 - 2008-12-04 10:15

quote:
Originally posted by JLF:
Seriously? Music on a VCR tape?

Can someone please explain how this would be hooked up to work? ...
Sure.
VHS has the capability for "HiFi Stereo" - a high quality stereo signal embedded in the tape along with the TV signal.
Top-line VCRs used to have audio in & out RCA jacks & recording level adjustment (just like a home hifi tape deck) & a switch to use the sound from these audio in jacks when recording instead of the TV sound. Therefore it could be used as a tape deck (you needed a TV signal when recording so the VHS tracking system could work properly).
So when you recorded a tape like this, you could play it back through the audio out RCAs into an audio system - no TV required.

Here's an example of a decent HiFi Stereo VCR on eBay. Check out the recording level sliders on the front

jlf - 2008-12-04 10:21

Excellent!

I may pick up an old school VCR to play around with... and of course to watch the old tapes I have when ever the need arises.

These small portable ones are cool! Some have the extra timer box, some dont. Im not sure its necessary since my main focus would be messing around with music?

I'll check the link!

billpc55 - 2008-12-04 16:28

i still know guys that bounce some digital recorded stuff into vhs recorders and then back up into the digital domain.
somethings it sounds really really good with. drums for example sound really good when you do this with a hi end hifi vcr. theres guys that do this with quarter inch tape machines as well.
i think tho being able to do it with a twenty dollar vcr is more appealing than spending a couple hundred or more on a expensive vintage reel to reel. unless its something special.
give it a try man it may surprise you how good it sounds.

transwave5000 - 2008-12-04 19:34

quote:
Originally posted by JLF:
Seriously? Music on a VCR tape?

Can someone please explain how this would be hooked up to work?

I found this one... Anyone know what the Timer box that makes this VCR a matched pair is for?



I just started actually using HIFI VCR to record audio.
I knew this could be done but dident have a use for it.

All you need is a separate video signal to record with to keep the vcr working right.
Can use a DVD player video signal, they usually go into screen-saver mode without a dvd in it.
Use the video and audio line in, line out.

Than record the VHS-HIFI-audio to cassette tape for my boombox.

And I got three cool HIFI VCR's for rediculosly low prices, They seem to be worthless to many.

Oh the timer-box is probably the power supply and tuner. The other section might work on battery too, might be a portable unit that can work on 12 volts, battery will slide out the side from a small door there. They were meant to be used with a portable camera, probably has a funny round connector with many pins on it for the camera.
This would power the camera as well. Would be your early "camcorder setup".
You could strap the unit on your shoulders and hold the cam in your hand.

jlf - 2008-12-04 19:52

yeah! From what I can tell, thats right...

many of these say, 12v, but NO battery!

Not sure if its a very specific kind? Maybe thats why none of them have it? Because they are discontinued?

Not sure these professional grade portables (auction claims, not mine) are Hi-Fi or not?

Now... Like the TEAC Reel Cassettes... are there Grail VCR tapes?! Smile

transwave5000 - 2008-12-04 20:04

Grail VHS tapes??
Maybe but nothing like the Teac Reel tapes.
Just some early high quality tapes might be grails.

Battery slides out the side usually a door there. Might be a NiCd pack.

jlf - 2008-12-04 20:10

Cool... Thanks for the knowledge!

Im going to choose carefully when I jump into this newly discovered direction. Smile

71spud - 2008-12-04 20:42

For portability how about an old VHS camcorder? You can run it on batteries and send the audio out to a boombox. Supposedly the audio quality is the same even if you get 6 hours on a VHS as 2 hours.... so there you go!

transwave5000 - 2008-12-04 22:20

Sound quality would be the same in 6-4-2 hour modes, but only if its a HIFI unit.

viennasound - 2008-12-05 01:00

This oldscool SHARP i have seen last time at the flea:


Just adding this maybe interesting HITACHI video.
The tapedeck is detachable from the tuning unit.
With shoulderbelt it ist connectable to this old videocamera.
I´ve just stored about 3 video/camera units of this:

tshorba - 2008-12-05 01:01

technics made vcr audio units i think they made them for the pro/dj market one sold on ebay au this year or last..

isolator42 - 2008-12-05 05:34

If you want to do the audio thing, be careful to check that the VCR you are looking at has the "HiFi Stereo" function.
Many older VCRs won't have this feature, & on younger ones it was only available on the more expensive models.
Look out for the "HiFi Stereo" logo.

Also, if cruising eBay or wherever for a bargain, look for manual recording level controls. On this page, the 2 later VCRs are good examples.
IMHO, manual level controls indicate that the manufacturer was serious about the audio part of the VCR.

billpc55 - 2008-12-05 08:20

honestly vcrs are pretty cheap right now but i kinda think that for the prices they are going for you can pick up lots of the hifi ones for twenty bucks at most thrift shops here.

i would also point out that many dat machines used vhs tape allthough it recorded the tape in totally different manner from a vcr. the preamps on many of those dat machines are extremely good.
there is a lot of dat machines now going for under a hundred bucks.

jlf - 2008-12-05 08:22

Great link!

I love this thread... Im gonna pick up a portable and see what I can do!

Now... Just to clarify... does the Video hook up have to have something for this to work? Or can you leave that not hooked up and the audio still work? Seems to me I read that the video has to be 'involved' in order for audio to work? Even if you dont use the Video portion.

transwave5000 - 2008-12-05 11:41

quote:
Originally posted by JLF:
Great link!

I love this thread... Im gonna pick up a portable and see what I can do!

Now... Just to clarify... does the Video hook up have to have something for this to work? Or can you leave that not hooked up and the audio still work? Seems to me I read that the video has to be 'involved' in order for audio to work? Even if you dont use the Video portion.



Yes, you would need a 'dummy' video signal.
Any video signal, to keep the vcr stable and running at the proper speed. The vcr needs to lock on to a video signal to adjust motor speeds and positions.
The video out on a DVD player without a disc in it will work.

jlf - 2008-12-05 11:43

Didnt someone say they simply recorded the digital readout/screen on the front of the VCR itself? Is that possible to record its own info?

bredgeo - 2008-12-05 13:31

Hey..... I used to have that same model!!! The Sharp one.... Cannot remember the series number and stuff....... I know it was heavy to carry around for a long time... and the batteries did not last too long.

transwave5000 - 2008-12-05 14:53

That SHARP has a handle and uses batteries if
it had amp and speakes you would have a VHS boombox.

Was there ever a video tape unit made with speakers and a monitor?

These portable units were very expencive back then. And with a camera.....$$$$$
.
.
.

viennasound - 2008-12-06 08:35

quote:
Was there ever a video tape unit made with speakers and a monitor?


Sure!
But not so oldscoollike as the SHARP´s.
When i worked in the Philips Technorepair, i serviced some of them.
Looking like an antique Laptop.
The VHSdrive at the bottom, the LCD-monitor to flip up and speakers at the side too.
Only found a pic of a very moderner one with DVD-drive:

viennasound - 2008-12-15 10:44

Just want to add a few pics

This portable videosystem, seen at the flea last sunday:


Rustical FISHER betacord video:


And this videocompo i have stored in the cellar.
INGELEN videosystem with portable deck and fix tuner unit. With the PHILIPS NEWVICON:

You can record music with it too... Wink